Mast, mast, mast!

Windsurf equipment based chatter should be in here.
Pad IoW
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Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Pad IoW » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:55 pm

I'm a self confessed kiteyholic, but after a fun sail the other week I have thought about getting a couple of newer sails to go with my 5.2. A 4.7, & a 4.0 (to replace my stellar tush 4.0 rock.)

In days gone by one mast would do, just more stuck out the top. Now though, to get best performance, my 5.2 uses a 4.00 mast. A newish 4.7 (same brand) should be on a 3.70 mast, & a 4.0 sail is recommended to be on a 340! This adds a lot of £££s, & to be honest, aint going to happen (the tush will rock on!)

My point, if I have one, is that as the wind changes we change sail to suit the force applied by the wind. I however, I stay the same weight, so within reason, I can use a mast bend that suits that side of the equation. Therefore a light person might have a more flexi mast in their wave sails, & a bigger chap have a stiffer one.

Is this just stupid, or have sail makers been pushing to sell lots of masts to us, after the last % of performance? If so it would seem like an own goal.

TOTD
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by TOTD » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:20 am

The sail and mast don’t know how much you weigh.typo you have a 4.00 mast, well seeing you have a 3.70, Maybe not.
The longer mast sticking out the head issue : the sail is designed to perform with a given length mast, many variables enter into when that mast isn’t used, as in longer. Some are using combo, like 400/430 .
The real question is what color are your harness lines
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Asle
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Asle » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:36 pm

The mast is the spine of your sail and very important.
You can test it out, but my experience is that having a good mast and the right size mast is one of the most effective change you can do to make your rig perform better. I will never use a to long mast and I will put my money in a new better mast every day before getting a newer sail.

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ross24
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by ross24 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:38 pm

I've got a naish 5.4 boxer, 5.0 session and 4.5 and they all rig on a 4m. And that covers 90 percent of my sailing.

At some stage I'm going to have to replace them though and looking around it looks like I am going to have the same conundrum as you. I find it frustrating that some of the manufacturers don't buck the trend and offer one mast to fit three sails. I see that Naish's sails in recent years have gone back to the need for many mast lengths being required.

RRD have been innovative with their folding sails and multi piece masts that fit into a backpack, perhaps they or someone else can design a 3 sail with single mast set for the typical short board coastal sailor. There would be a market for that.

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Gorgesailor
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Gorgesailor » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:06 pm

Pad IoW wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:55 pm
I'm a self confessed kiteyholic, but after a fun sail the other week I have thought about getting a couple of newer sails to go with my 5.2. A 4.7, & a 4.0 (to replace my stellar tush 4.0 rock.)

In days gone by one mast would do, just more stuck out the top. Now though, to get best performance, my 5.2 uses a 4.00 mast. A newish 4.7 (same brand) should be on a 3.70 mast, & a 4.0 sail is recommended to be on a 340! This adds a lot of £££s, & to be honest, aint going to happen (the tush will rock on!)

My point, if I have one, is that as the wind changes we change sail to suit the force applied by the wind. I however, I stay the same weight, so within reason, I can use a mast bend that suits that side of the equation. Therefore a light person might have a more flexi mast in their wave sails, & a bigger chap have a stiffer one.

Is this just stupid, or have sail makers been pushing to sell lots of masts to us, after the last % of performance? If so it would seem like an own goal.
The thing about your reasoning is that the wind is applying pressure on 370cm(for example) of your 400cm mast so the sail is effectively setting on a stiffer section of mast when you have 30cm(or more) sticking out the top. so a 4.0 rigged on a 400 mast will feel very stiff & twitchy. That said you can do as Ross has done(knowingly or not) & shop sails based on your mast quiver. His Boxer for example is an extremely stubby sail whereas the Sessions were taller. You may have to mix & match Brands or at least models & years to achieve your wind range but it can be done. Likely in the end you will find it compromises some aspect of performance or at least limits your choice of sails.

Pad IoW
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Pad IoW » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:27 pm

Asle wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:36 pm
The mast is the spine of your sail and very important.
You can test it out, but my experience is that having a good mast and the right size mast is one of the most effective change you can do to make your rig perform better. I will never use a to long mast and I will put my money in a new better mast every day before getting a newer sail.
I would not dispute this at all.

What I'm getting at is that sails at the moment are designed to work with very specific masts. Sails are also designed by a designer of a specific weight, so to get the best you should weigh the same as the designer (maybe?) (I fortunately weigh the same as Ken Black) ......

Thinking about it my solution might make life even more complex. I would be going in to a shop asking for 3 sails that work for a 75kg sailor that set on a 4.00m mast. A heavier sailor would have the same sails, different mast. A light sailor a softer mast.

Pad IoW
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Pad IoW » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:38 pm

I sometimes have these crazy ideas. Many years ago I asked Ken for a 5.7 wave sail. He looked at me quizzically, & explained the every one wants cambers in sails that big. 1 or 2, & besides, it wouldn't work on a 75l wave board!

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Gorgesailor
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Gorgesailor » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:36 am

Pad IoW wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:27 pm
Asle wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:36 pm
The mast is the spine of your sail and very important.
You can test it out, but my experience is that having a good mast and the right size mast is one of the most effective change you can do to make your rig perform better. I will never use a to long mast and I will put my money in a new better mast every day before getting a newer sail.
I would not dispute this at all.

What I'm getting at is that sails at the moment are designed to work with very specific masts. Sails are also designed by a designer of a specific weight, so to get the best you should weigh the same as the designer (maybe?) (I fortunately weigh the same as Ken Black) ......

Thinking about it my solution might make life even more complex. I would be going in to a shop asking for 3 sails that work for a 75kg sailor that set on a 4.00m mast. A heavier sailor would have the same sails, different mast. A light sailor a softer mast.
Most designers design sails with the help of riders of various weights, Severne for instance has smaller Jaeger Stone & big boy Phillip Koster... as well as women so no sails are not weight specific.

TOTD
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by TOTD » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:37 pm

The sails come in sizes to suit a weight, which suits a size board, which suits a wind force, which is a dynamic it changes.

Past sail makers have made , ie Naish Chopper that it’s size range fit one mast, it’s not in the inventory any longer.

The answer to me is::it is what it is.
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Richarli
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Re: Mast, mast, mast!

Post by Richarli » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Might be an idea to email Matthew at 5 Oceans and ask him about making you a custom set to suit one mast. It'll probably be cheaper as well.

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