Xply (HD) popularity

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northy
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Xply (HD) popularity

Post by northy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:04 am

Many wave sails do a monofilm and a HD xply version...what version do you have and which variant are the most popular?

i have had xply for a while but the vision (when trying to line up wave) is definitely impaired so considering going all clear for future sails (and i dont want pvc window)

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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by Ruaraidh_K257 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:31 am

I have no idea... my 4.7 and 3.0 Combats have a monofilm window and my 3.3 and 4.0 have X-ply. I prefer being able to see the wave through the window so I prefer monofilm and also have had no issues whatsoever with a difference in durability. I like having the smaller sizes x ply though as it gives me a little extra confidence, even if it is a placebo effect, plus I’m usually only sailing good waves and needing to look through the window when I’m on my 4.7.
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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:51 pm

The best person to answer this is Sailrepair, I can only tell from my experiences.

Monofilm gives the most direct feel and the best vision in the beginning. It goes blind sooner from sand and sun. Here a monofilm window goes blind after 2 to 8 months, depending on the frequency of use and care. Meaning that if you want to be able to see through it for DTL wave riding, during the lifespan of the sail, the window will have to be replaced once or twice. I don´t know how long it lasts in the UK when you are not travelling overseas, Canaries or Capetown and such. In sunny conditions a blind window is a lot worse than when it is cloudy.
With an X-ply window that takes longer (I estimate some 50 to 100%) and gives a softer, less nervous feel which normally is preferred in challenging conditions. Here we hardly see any monofilm windows anymore.

A PVC window still has pretty much the same visibility after years of use, if put in prestretched and with the panels aligned so the forces are guided around it, it has no noticable influence on profile stability. I have my own sail loft but would not want to have to replace the windows of my sails after every X amount of uses and I do want to be able to see the wave.
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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by BTB » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:45 pm

As someone who sails mostly old gear to the point of death then I think the big difference is what happens when creases turn to rips which then split all the way through the panel , unless it has some x ply fibre that will stop the rip developing!

Agree that mono film clouds up pretty quick and that new sail vibe never lasts long but I can’t justify the cost of keeping my sails in A1 condition. I just get used to sailing with limited vision!

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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by TOTD » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:59 pm

Both Hot Sails Maui and Ezzy have Windows that are neither.

How do you you drive when the wipers are on?
I assume it rains there
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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by PhilN » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:55 am

I think the Dyneema in the x-ply takes the load off the film. I think a dog ran over my Ezzy sail and put a claw through the x-ply, there was a muddy swipe then small hole. I only noticed when I had finished sailing. I think if that had monofilm it would have spread across the panel. As it is, I have just put a small piece of tape over the hole.

Ezzy Lion & Taka are going to have Dyneema reinforced x-ply for the window for 2020, its the wider spaced x-ply.

http://www.windsurfing44.com/forum/view ... 15&t=24593

A vinyl window does stay clear, this is my 4 year old sail, used 128 times (admittedly not sand blasted environment for 80% of its use).

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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 am

BTB wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:45 pm
As someone who sails mostly old gear to the point of death then I think the big difference is what happens when creases turn to rips which then split all the way through the panel , unless it has some x ply fibre that will stop the rip developing!
Even without the fibres (which often rip straight through as well, or in the case of Dyneema rip out of the film if it does not break) X-ply has 2 advantages, first the 2 layers glued together are more impact/puncture resistant by itself, probably similar to double layered glass such as in windscreens of cars. Secondly the glue works like a UV filter so the film only gets half the UV. IIRC, Goya uses or used monofilm which was actually 2 ply without the fibres in between for this reason.
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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by Smidge » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:17 am

Im a fan of Xply for all the reasons stated above, but my most recent 2 sail repairs have been full xply panel repairs as if you put enough force on any panel (head or feet travelling at speed...) then its going to fail where the stitching goes in.

Also, having experience of horrific amounts of very old clear and brittle monofilm on my daughters ancient 6th hand Techno sails, the secret to their longevity is to give them a good look over every few times they are used looking out for when those tiny creases become tiny splits and stick a little bit of Gorilla tape clear on each side. Easy, invisible and cheap. Over time you approach 100% gorilla tape coverage and then its UV resistant too!

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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:39 pm

Smidge wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:17 am
Im a fan of Xply for all the reasons stated above, but my most recent 2 sail repairs have been full xply panel repairs as if you put enough force on any panel (head or feet travelling at speed...) then its going to fail where the stitching goes in.
If that happens, it´s the glue that failed. It´s the glue (double sided seam tape) that passes the force from one panel to the next. The stitching is just there to stop the glue being peeled off /lifted up from one side. Without the glue, the thread of the seam would just rip straight through the film. Very close/tight stitching actually makes a seam less strong as the film is more perforated. That is why you can replace a panel or window only once on the same seam. The next time it is best to create a complete new seam next to the old one.
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Re: Xply (HD) popularity

Post by BTB » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:13 pm

Bouke/Witchcraft wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:58 am
BTB wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:45 pm
As someone who sails mostly old gear to the point of death then I think the big difference is what happens when creases turn to rips which then split all the way through the panel , unless it has some x ply fibre that will stop the rip developing!
Even without the fibres (which often rip straight through as well, or in the case of Dyneema rip out of the film if it does not break) X-ply has 2 advantages, first the 2 layers glued together are more impact/puncture resistant by itself, probably similar to double layered glass such as in windscreens of cars. Secondly the glue works like a UV filter so the film only gets half the UV. IIRC, Goya uses or used monofilm which was actually 2 ply without the fibres in between for this reason.
Agree with this. Holes and damage dont get much worse in an xply panel but in monofilm any hole is just going to get bigger. Unless you put some tape on it and you get the same effect and as long as tape sticks over a hole in monofilm it can last.

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