4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Foiling related talk in here
Smidge
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by Smidge » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:24 pm

Anyone got a guess as to why the RRD Hi Flight does not have SUP fin slots. If it did it would be my perfect option - bit more volume than most

ronnie
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:14 pm

Smidge wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:24 pm
Anyone got a guess as to why the RRD Hi Flight does not have SUP fin slots. If it did it would be my perfect option - bit more volume than most
There are boards which are only designed to be used with a foil - and I guess this is one of them.

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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by AlexF » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:48 am

Smidge wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:24 pm
Anyone got a guess as to why the RRD Hi Flight does not have SUP fin slots. If it did it would be my perfect option - bit more volume than most
RRD says the board has a flat rocker. You want rocker in a SUP for Surfing. You can use the RRD only for SUP in flat water, no waves.
Also the beveled rails reduce the grip and drive in a fullrail bottom turn.

Alex

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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by Smidge » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:36 am

I might be a bit slow on the uptake, but I think I have now figured out the compromises in these Hybrid several in 1 designs:

For a board to be a good wave sup it needs soft rails and plenty of tail rocker.

For a board to be a good windfoil board or sup foil board it needs to be optimised for generating take off speed with minimum wind or paddle speed - so negligible tail rocker, and harder rails as rail shape doesnt matter when you are carving on the foil.

Therefore you can get a good surf sup shape that has had footstraps and the right boxes added, but it will never be that easy to reach take off for windfoil or sup foiling (eg Hypernut 4 in 1), and you can probably float and ride windsurf it OK too. Albeit if you know what you are doing and only use it in good waves/swell then the extra push might make up for it.

Or you can get a board like the RRD that is flat at the back that is optimised for foiling (wind and sup), but you cant expect to sup surf it or windsurf it (although it will probably flat water sup cruise if you want).

Plus there seems to be an issue with if the boxes are in the right place on all these boards as Sup foil seems to best be placed much further forward and windsurf much further back (see the RRD in contrast to the hypernut).

Any views / real world experience to add?

AlexF
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by AlexF » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:52 pm

Hi Smidge,
i think you got the all the most important facts right.

One thing i'd like to add is that in windfoiling the huge rocker of a SUPsurf shape doesn't matter as much as anticipated from the common knowledge of shape details in classic Windsurfing. But remember we're talking about Stubby/Tomo shapes here, that have a rather flat rocker for a surf SUP.
As soon as the foil starts to work it is highly overcompensating the board shape imo, e. g. if you learned how to pump your foil you only have a very little disadvantge compared to a flat rockered board. I'd say it's 90% foil and 10% board. So yes, you loose a little, but you gain a lot in not having to deal with several boards.

I still can't say that much about supfoiling and the compromises of a 4in1 there, but it seems the good guys use much shorter and narrower, but fatter, boards now, highly beveled and ducktailed, claiming they work much better for supfoiling. I can't figure out how much better though, and if it's only the last 10% performance as in windfoiling or significantly more.

Alex

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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:24 pm

My JP Slate 103 SUP has a lot of rocker - although it has a Tomo type plan shape. It needs a lot of power to get it planing when windSUPing it.
This is the 7'6" I had but the 7'2" is much the same and there is a deep channel in the tail making the rocker even more.
Slate 7 6 rocker.jpg
Slate 7 6 rocker.jpg (191.72 KiB) Viewed 266 times
As Alex said, the foil mitigates the power required and it foils at a relatively slow speed, so although I do not pump the sail or board, the big GoFoil Iwa surf/SUP foil does make a big difference.

The JP SUP FOIL board seems to be a good compromise board between windfoiling and SUPfoiling with the bias for SUPfoiling.


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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by AlexF » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:37 pm

The Slate has some rocker, but a classic surf SUP has even more.

With the JP Foilboard windfoiling should be no problem, but more the strapless wavefoil or cruising style, not in a performance freeride style by using straps and a performance foil.

Talking foiling styles we see already a huge range from racing up/downwind, performance freeride, flatwater cruising to wavefoiling and even freestyle. A proper 4in1 could imo serve at best for performance freeride, more often only for flatwater cruising, if boxes and straps are not positioned properly.

Alex

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Stev-0
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by Stev-0 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:03 am

Going back to the Starboard 4-in-1: I had had some more time SUP and wind foiling it and can report back. I am learning to SUP foil and have been finding the foil really pins the board down and makes the 104L feel much more stable. I can take it out SUP foiling in choppy onshore conditions I wouldn't hope to be able to ride as a SUP (I am 85kg and an experienced SUP surfer) Quite amazing how the foil stabilises the board! The type of foil you use makes a massive difference to how it works and I am using the first generation Go Foil which needs a bit of energy and push from a wave to fly.
I have only had one session SUP surfing it in crappy conditions but it felt great when I did get a few waves. Still early days surfing it.
I have had a few more sessions wind foiling on it now and I am focused on Wind Wave Foiling so taking it out in small waves in 12-20 knots. I put a single back strap in the middle position over the foil and that has made a big difference to control versus a back strap on the outside rail. Been learning how to ride onshore waves on the foil in marginal conditions so that has been fun.
The board is basically a platform for the foil so once you are flying you want to chop 1' off the nose.
I still need to wavesail it and will report back on that - I have found that SUP surfboards have too much rocker and are hard to plane and usually the fins are too small. But will see how this one goes...
So far the 4-in-1 concept is working out and the investment in the 4-in-1 is paying off as I am getting the use out of it. I think a 2-in-1 dedicated SUPfoil and Windfoil shape will be the next option that is at least 1' shorter board with the volume better suited for foiling. You'd lose the SUP surfing and windsurfing options but get better optimised board for foiling - but the 4-in-1 can do everything. 8-)

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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by Smidge » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:36 pm

My 8ft 4in1 hypernut birthday present arrived yesterday. Looks pretty weird - in a good way! How do you attach the single back strap using the Tuttle bolt when the Tuttle bolts are in set? Use a stack of washers to build it up?

Interesting things to note - it comes with tuttle fin bolts and washers that are the right length for Slingshot (despite that being a mid sized tuttle not a full deep one) it also comes with the beefed up M6 T nuts and bolts that you need for a pedestal mount (and can cost plenty for no good reason) - although fitting a pedestal mount seems a real faff to me so i will stick with tuttle for now. And 6 little fins for the quad fin sup or wave windsurf mode. Plus a great quality leash (or two in my case - dont know why!). The distance from the tuttle bolt to the mast track is much shorter than my old F155 - much shorter is recommended by Slingshot and various other foilers. Will be interesting to see the difference.

Back to footstraps - you can either have back straps right on the rail - slalom style - which doesnt really suit windfoiling imho or float and ride windsurfing (are they expecting people to put a big fin in it and blast around on it despite the box being forward?) or a single but it needs to do this odd thing with the tuttle bolts that i havent figured out yet!

I wonder if its worth getting blanks for the little fin slotboxes for when in foil mode (K4 do them for very little), It comes with blanks for the tuttle box and pedestal mount boxes.

I really appreciate the efforts Starboard are going to to avoid plastic in their packaging - they have really thought about it and only thing that wasnt paper, cardboard or compostable plastic type bag was some sellotape.

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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by gordito » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:32 pm

Cool . As was looking for a second 28" wide JP slate and saw your posting. Did the same ( almost ) as cut the rear off my 28" slate ( 7'2" to 6') and made a pintail as it is primarily used for WWfoiling also. It actually does some limited SUP paddling well. I 'm light so 93L is just fine and turns great with my IWA. I got a DT box from Alex at Go Foil and installed about 8" from rear for wind wave foiling mostly. At lesss then 15# super strong and fun to ride.

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