Board design by Ola H.

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Bouke/Witchcraft
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:40 pm

PK1111 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:22 pm
Interesting read and great to see the cross sport fertilisation.
A key question for me is to what degree a design should specialise, rather than have generic traits.
The danger is that boards become too specialised and don’t work well outside their comfort zone? It can lead to expensive mistakes, especially when the marketers have added their descriptions.

I’m lucky in having a very supportive family, so get to travel around the uk a lot and experience lots of different conditions, especially with waves.
I now have 3 wave boards that are all quite specific, but I wonder if just one would do?

I’d be hard pressed to choose one, but my 84 litre quad would Probabally win.
So how “all round” are these designs?
The thing is what is "all round"? For one sailor that can be something quite different than the other. Or for one location or situation to the next. How much time do you have and how much are you able to choose your time, where do you live and how far are you able to travel can all make a big difference.You can make a board with a wider range but then it will inevitably lose some juice in specific conditions where you may want it to excel.
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by PK1111 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:26 pm

With respect, I disagree Bouke.
The best boards I’ve ever owned, the ones I’ve loved the most, are the most adaptable, easy riding, plug and play designs.
I think it’s quite easy in the uk to justify a 3 board quiver:
A large freeride for summer wind sailing in 10 to say 20 knots.
An all round board for 15 to 25 knots (fsw?)
And finally a wave board to handle 20 to 40 knots that will work onshore and cross shore sailing, local wind waves to ground swell.

I accept, some sailors are purists. Their location or desire drives them to specialise.
I do know sailors with several slalom boards, and equally some wVe sailors who don’t sail unless on wave gear.
I’m lucky to cover a lot of bases, and have the desire and ability to flex options, but I think I’m in the minority, and most sailors have 2, maybe 3 boards.
Most have one wave board and it won’t be a radical design, most Probabally a smallish quad.
I’ve lost count of the number of Goya quads I’ve seen.

So back to my point. How generalised are the designs?
Or is this yet another “black box”.

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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:21 pm

PK1111 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:26 pm
With respect, I disagree Bouke.
The best boards I’ve ever owned, the ones I’ve loved the most, are the most adaptable, easy riding, plug and play designs.
I think it’s quite easy in the uk to justify a 3 board quiver:
A large freeride for summer wind sailing in 10 to say 20 knots.
An all round board for 15 to 25 knots (fsw?)
And finally a wave board to handle 20 to 40 knots that will work onshore and cross shore sailing, local wind waves to ground swell.
That is a bit of a contradiction isn´t it? You are now talking of 3 completely different designs. So which one is then all round? That is what I meant. You have people who don´t want to sail waves and those who will only sail waves but up to 30knots and 2m etc, etc. Skills matter a lot but it will also depend to where you live. Sticking to the UK, if you live west, south or east, your ideas of what is all round may well vary. Looking to other countries that can be the same. Then you have those who travel abroad, which may also influence the board of choice. Making custom boards mostly people ask me for an all round board as even within a small space, conditions still vary a lot. But as people vary a lot, their demands vary a lot. Which is why there are so many different boards out there and many will claim their board is "all round" where as for another this same board would not suit at all. How many people would think the same of your boards as you do? If I were to make an "all round" wave board for you, I would still have lots of questions about your sailing. Usually I give garantee that it will be the best board they can find for their needs, providing I have been given the correct information.
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by PK1111 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:33 pm

Bouke, I respect your position as a custom board manufacturer, and ability to build to a clients request, but the main brands can’t do that.

I’ve lost count of the number of highly rockered banana wave boards, touted as cross shore wave boards, which are absolute pigs, unless powered by a really powerful swell, and frankly not much fun even then.

The stubby board revolution is yet another example of quite a specific design trend being touted as offering exceptional all round performance. They don’t, generally having one superior aspect, which is projection and maintaining speed in an onshore turn. All the other statements about earlier planing, speed upwind and faster rail to rail turns isn’t born out by feedback.

So this question is aimed at Ola. How all round are these designs in real world conditions and average sailors looking for one wave board?

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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:03 pm

PK1111 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:33 pm
I’ve lost count of the number of highly rockered banana wave boards, touted as cross shore wave boards, which are absolute pigs, unless powered by a really powerful swell, and frankly not much fun even then.
I think that you are looking at it from your POV and seem to take that as every one elses. I am used to put myself in other peoples situations.

It´s been many years that wave board had a lot of rocker. Since multifins boards have less rocker. Multifins for me is since 1997. There may be some exceptions like the first Fanatic Quad in 2010 but very few. Only Maui developed boards tended to have too much rocker but now even that has become rare. Even if we get good side shore conditions on Fuerte, sometimes waves are softer and winds are lighter so getting planing and upwind is as important. Besides that 80% of the custom boards we make and 90% of the semi customs are for Europe.

Compact wave shapes (not to be mistaken for the square stubbie shapes) have their appeal for small on shore waves. And there are many people who predominantly have small on shore waves. Even if just in lighter winds.
Many people will simply only sail their local spots. Due to family, work, transport or financial reasons.
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by PK1111 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:06 pm

Bouke, you have to accuse me of bringing a personal view?
I’m 48, a professional and have been windsurfing for 30 years, so I think I can be sufficiently objective in my discussions on the internet.

As to your question, “what is all round? “, it appears you know the answer already, https://witchcraft.nu/boards/haka/ , and are I can only assume you are being obtuse and argumentative to prove a point that a custom manufacturer with 4 wave boards and myriad sizes, plus an option to go off template will always be superior to the offerings of a production manufacturer. I’m not interested in that debate.

So, back to Ola. These are interesting designs, and I greatly enjoyed using the Frugal, even as an all round board. So to what degree are these specialised vs all round?

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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:58 am

PK1111 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:06 pm
Bouke, you have to accuse me of bringing a personal view?
I’m 48, a professional and have been windsurfing for 30 years, so I think I can be sufficiently objective in my discussions on the internet.

As to your question, “what is all round? “, it appears you know the answer already, https://witchcraft.nu/boards/haka/ , and are I can only assume you are being obtuse and argumentative to prove a point that a custom manufacturer with 4 wave boards and myriad sizes, plus an option to go off template will always be superior to the offerings of a production manufacturer. I’m not interested in that debate.

So, back to Ola. These are interesting designs, and I greatly enjoyed using the Frugal, even as an all round board. So to what degree are these specialised vs all round?
Exactly, as we sell each of these models more or less in an equal amount, says something that "all round" is something different to every one. Also the Frugal can be all round to one and very special to the next. So to me it seems your view is personal and can´t be copied randomly to others. Not every one is a professional with 30 years experience as I am sure you will agree.
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Richarli » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:57 pm

Boys, boys.
It's time we all played nice.
I hope this forum is full of all shapes, sizes, ages and skill levels.
There for sure, is no "normal" windsurfer. And therefore needs and wants will vary a lot.

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