What kit are you flying on?

Foiling related talk in here
Sailrepair
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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by Sailrepair » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:08 pm

rod wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:47 pm
Interesting they have made it a 'freestyle' board plan shape. The plan shape of the board seems largely irrelevant once on the foil.
yes the plan shape doesn't make a huge difference apart from partly dictating where you can put your feet. So you could have a wide board with a square tail but stand in the same position as you could on a freestyle shaped board like the slingshot but you can't do it the other way round ie sail a pintail as if its a formula board.. But whether you want to is another matter

I have to say the larger slingshot looks like it could be a nice board.

I do hope that boards aren't going to get thicker and thicker in the tail as it makes marginal water starting more effort.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by JB:) » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:11 pm

nimo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:49 pm
from the words in the brochure this is still a "foil only " board. I would be surprised if it sailed with a fin at that length?
The foil SUP/windsurf board I recently built has a usable length of a little under 6' (with a 1' duck tail) and it is perfectly sailable as long as the water is pretty flat. It only has 12.5 cm of rocker... total rocker. It is flat as a pancake. The only problem is in big chop where catapaults are common.

I think if you put a bit of scoop in the nose it would be fine, might be a bit sketcthy in big chop. But lets be honest it is a freestyle board so more suited to flatter water anyway.

I still like the look of the wizards though.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by JB:) » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:26 pm



Looks like the freestyle boards are being put to some pretty good use here!

Smidge
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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by Smidge » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:27 pm

I havent yet got around to putting a foilable box into my 111litre flare - but it’s interesting to see the slingshot boards look quite similar to a very big freestyle board (albeit bit wider). I see that Josh White has just converted a similar freestyle board to mine to foilable, so i will wait and see if i can get any feedback first. Realistically the board will be for my daughter and wife to use with the foil as, as Rod points out, 90kg of me is going to find it very hard work uphauling it (although i will try it).

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rod
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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by rod » Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:52 pm

Theres is something odd about making such a small board, unless you see foiling as a high wind activity too, when it is possible to waterstart.

For me the attraction is being able to do exciting windsurfing when I otherwise wouldn't be able to do it (or would have to do it with a massive sail etc).

I also really think boards could get much thicker and we could all have something the same plan shape with different thicknesses for different volumes. So far no one has tried this.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by ronnie » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:05 am

rod wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:04 am
I think 2m will seem long in a couple of years.

There is definitely potential for boards to get much thicker, so reducing plan shape but retaining volume to uphaul.
For small sails I'm.not convinced they need to be that wide either.
RRD tried prototypes of 2m, 1.90, and 1.80 and they say the 1.80 was the best length of the 3.
http://www.robertoriccidesigns.com/equi ... et-rocket/
At 6'long, they also show it being Sup foiled, so presumably it can also be used with a wing instead of a sail (if you chose to).
Last edited by ronnie on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by ronnie » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:16 am

I agree with Sailrepair, that the tail volume is a factor if you would like to be waterstarting a foil board. My JP 103 Slate is easier to get to standing on the board with a waterstart than the JP 105 Foil board, because of less volume in the tail. With bigger foils, they will fly in less wind than I can watertstart in, but we haven't seen much development yet in the possibility that if you can get upright on a board that doesn't float you, can you get enough forward motion to get the foil lifting and then flying?
LIght wind waterstart skills.


I would like there to be a solution that blended waterstarting with foiling, but so far, it seems that for lighter winds, uphauling is the answer.
In this video, Tony Logosz is waterstarting a 45 litre 127cm board that he says he can waterstart in 14 knots with a 4.6m sail. With the low volume, he is waterstarting to about knee depth, and then the forward motion starts to get the foil lifting ( but this video is in stronger wind with a 3.7m sail).


Waterstarting with a wing (in a lot of wind - but it shows that you can waterstart a small board with a foil attached).
There was a video of Ken Winner waterstarting (sinkstarting) a 60 litre board (he is 86kg) with a 5m duotone wing, in 'maybe around 15? knots' by pumping the wing, but the video has been removed.
Last edited by ronnie on Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by ronnie » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:54 am

JB:) wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:11 pm
nimo wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:49 pm
from the words in the brochure this is still a "foil only " board. I would be surprised if it sailed with a fin at that length?
The foil SUP/windsurf board I recently built has a usable length of a little under 6' (with a 1' duck tail) and it is perfectly sailable as long as the water is pretty flat. It only has 12.5 cm of rocker... total rocker. It is flat as a pancake. The only problem is in big chop where catapaults are common.

I think if you put a bit of scoop in the nose it would be fine, might be a bit sketcthy in big chop. But lets be honest it is a freestyle board so more suited to flatter water anyway.

I still like the look of the wizards though.
I bought the JP 105 Foil (only) board partly because I suspected that it would also be possible to windsurf it. It is 204cm (6' 8") by 70cm, and I also happen to have the van built inside to only take boards up to 28" wide (71.3cm) currently.

I've windsurfed it and it is a mixed success so far. I'm using a Lessacher DUO 320 weed fin, which seems to be a good idea because the board still tends to want to go upwind. Because the front 70% has chamfered rails, I think that doesn't help with the centre of lateral resistance, and a board with more normal or boxy rails would have the centre of lateral resistance further forward.

I have to force it off the wind and currently get into the rear strap first so I can lean forward to sail it off the mast foot. Once planing hard, it feels like a normal windsurf board, but still wants to go upwind. I made the mistake last time of using short (foiling) harness lines to windsurf it and a slow catapult before I got into the straps damaged my ribs, so I am just getting back to sailing again after my 3rd injury in the last 8 months.
I have yet to windsurf it with the sail at the front of the track, so that will be the next experiment. I will also try to keep the centre of effort of the sail as far forward as reasonable by the way I rig it to see if that makes a difference.
105 Lessacher DUO 320.jpg
105 Lessacher DUO 320.jpg (64.81 KiB) Viewed 192 times

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by rod » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:07 pm

I don't think the idea of foiling (in light winds) with a board you can't uphaul is realistic for most people. No matter how good at water starting you are.

When the wind is under f4 it always full of holes / up and down and generally more shifty. It is exactly these conditions when foiling is brilliant.
In those situations being able to uphaul is more important than being able to water start easily.

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Re: What kit are you flying on?

Post by ronnie » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:31 pm

rod wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:07 pm
I don't think the idea of foiling (in light winds) with a board you can't uphaul is realistic for most people. No matter how good at water starting you are.

When the wind is under f4 it always full of holes / up and down and generally more shifty. It is exactly these conditions when foiling is brilliant.
In those situations being able to uphaul is more important than being able to water start easily.
I agree. I have had to accept that uphauling is going to be a major part of light wind foiling. I had originally thought that it might work to mostly think of uphauling if the wind died to sail back in, but the reality of light winds where I live is that they are much like stronger winds - unreliable and variable. Even when there seems to be enough wind to waterstart almost all the time, too often the wind has faded. I have also been trying to minimise the sail size for waterstarting, which hasn't worked. Having windsurfed for many years without uphauling, I had a false idea of how steady light winds would be.

The answer seems to be to rig for uphauling and if the wind gets stronger, then waterstart. I was trying to do it the other way round.

Using smaller boards will be for when you are sure there will be enough wind to waterstart. It will be interesting to hear how they then manage the foil size and type, because usually when you can waterstart easily, you have too much power for the foil.

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