New electric van

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James.blonde
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Re: New electric van

Post by James.blonde »

There is alot of naivety going on with electric vehicles. Given, the head line day to day running may be greener at the source of the vehicle but when you look at the whole cycle it's not so pretty
When you look at what they are going to do soon to met demand for the need for the batteries it is somewhat different and an environmental disaster. Deep sea mining to extract cobalt, another part of the planet not yet raped for its commodity let alone the other precious metals and elements needed.
Too many people on the planet and that's the real problem.
Smidge
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Re: New electric van

Post by Smidge »

Good points, but battery technology is evolving very rapidly. There is a big focus on getting cobalt out of them and/or reducing the amount of it for the reasons cited. This is all a fast moving new area where there will be dramatic changes one way or another in technology (including charging speed - which is a big topic) and price over the next decade. Very large capacity battery technology has not been a huge focus of serious large company R&D until the last few years. Compare that to internal combustion engine which has had billions and billions thrown at perfecting it forever. Lithium ion batteries were only invented in a lab in Oxford in 1980, and Sony first commercialised it in 1991 and it barely got out of phones until a few years ago. Whilst LiOn might have been pushed nearly as far as it can go, there are other things out there like solid state batteries coming into view.

And in terms of the input electricity, obviously it all depends on how green the national grid is. In this country we are making reasonable progress on greening our grid mainly by getting coal out of it, and that will only improve further over time. Having grown up not so far from Drax (could burn a max of 36,000 tons of coal a day) it staggers me to think much of that now runs on biomass (which isnt nirvana either, but better). Further point is that most domestic vehicles will be charged overnight - and overnight is the greenest energy mix of them all (wind still blows, hydro still flows, and you cant turn that dreadful nuclear stuff off even when you need to... whilst normal demand is low). And one day fusion might be viable.....

But leaving that aside, electric cars are just huge fun to drive - miles more fun than equivalent petrol/diesel.
Distinctly Average
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Re: New electric van

Post by Distinctly Average »

DavidA wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:17 pm
Having just done a road trip round Ireland which involved first driving 250 miles to get a ferry it really couldn't have been done with an electric vehicle with the current state of recharging infrastructure.
You would be surprised. I do the journey from Hertfordshire to Fishguard quite often. With any of the larger capacity EVs the journey would be quite easy. I can drive about 2hrs before I need to at least stop for a drink or bladder break. Given that many EVs now do 200+ miles on a charge stopping for 20mins for a rapid top-up is no hardship. I usually stop on that route for longer to get some food or just have a rest. Using a Tesla Model 3 short range version I would probably still have 150miles range once reaching Fishguard. The long range version supposedly does 322miles so I would not need to stop, but still would. Cars like the new Renault Zoe, e208 or eGolf would need a 1-1.5hr charging stop but that really is no hardship on a long journey like that. We also have cars like the new VW ID range, the 3 charging 260miles in 30mins and having a range of 340miles in the largest battery. Things are changing very rapidly.

Many people suggest they would always be waiting for their cars to charge, they worry they would be wasting time charging at garages etc. In practice less time and effort is needed than owning an ICE. Think about it, if you go to a petrol station 2-3 times a week you are probably wasting over an hour on making the journey, filling up and paying. With an EV you just pull up at home, plug it in and by morning you have a fully fuelled car. Most EV owners love this aspect, they never have to sit in line at Tesco waiting for some muppet in front to work out how to work the pay at pump.
Smidge
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Re: New electric van

Post by Smidge »

Super fast charging is really the future. My 5yr old Zoe takes in charge at 43KW/hr at the motorway services, and has a 22KWh battery. So in the time it takes to go to the loo, get a coffee and check a few emails it can add two thirds of the battery capacity (albeit its a small battery and in real world we dont use it for long journeys much as cant fit all the kids or boards in it..).

They are now talking about charging rates of up to 400Kw/hr, which given most EV cars can do 3 or 4 miles per KW, means you could add 100 miles of range in 5 minutes. Tesla chargers already installed chargers that do 250Kw/hr, and others arent far behind.

Key points are (obviously) this is time when you can do other stuff - you arent standing next to it in the cold holding a fuel pump or queuing to pay for the petrol, and all you need is enough charge to get you home where you will plug it in for the night, so you just draw down the charge you need, you dont sit there like a muppet waiting for it to be full if you dont need that charge for that day.
Jeff
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Re: New electric van

Post by Jeff »

Looks like Tesla are putting in some effort to make something with enough room for kit and better range in the more expensive versions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50513294

A so-called market expert quoted as saying "It looks like a truck version of the DeLorean from Back To The Future." as if that could ever be a bad thing.
DavidA
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Re: New electric van

Post by DavidA »

My point about the road trip was there was no way of charging it on an overnight ferry and then when I got to Ireland I saw very few charge points and non of the hotels we stayed in had them. I get for most people charging at home is the way to go if you are not parked out in the street in a row of houses or flat. Still a long way to go. EV are already having their own "manufacturers mpg hype" when you read the reviews the real world range never meets the manufacturers claims usually by a good 20%. Of course my dilemma is my choice of transport is a van and the EV version doesn't exist yet though the VW ID one looks pretty good. So I will be running the old diesel burner for quite a while yet.
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BillG
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Re: New electric van

Post by BillG »

Distinctly Average
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Re: New electric van

Post by Distinctly Average »

DavidA wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:45 pm My point about the road trip was there was no way of charging it on an overnight ferry and then when I got to Ireland I saw very few charge points and non of the hotels we stayed in had them. I get for most people charging at home is the way to go if you are not parked out in the street in a row of houses or flat. Still a long way to go. EV are already having their own "manufacturers mpg hype" when you read the reviews the real world range never meets the manufacturers claims usually by a good 20%. Of course my dilemma is my choice of transport is a van and the EV version doesn't exist yet though the VW ID one looks pretty good. So I will be running the old diesel burner for quite a while yet.
Some hotels are getting them in Ireland but I agree, there are nowhere near enough there yet. Same goes for here in the UK, that and we have too many providers all having different ways of paying. It is just not easy enough yet. I am sure however in under 10 years time we will wonder why we ever thought ICE was a good idea. I doubt though the change will be as obvious as for instance New York where we see photo's taken less than 10 years apart with streets going from full of horses to nothing but cars.
DavidA
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Re: New electric van

Post by DavidA »

Thanks Bill that article confirms my scepticism it states that the range of current vans is about 80miles so not really suitable for a windsurf van.
Smidge
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Re: New electric van

Post by Smidge »

On chargers, my guess is sometime in next 5 yrs (maybe a lot less) a winning standard will emerge that delivers many hundreds of kw per hour and will then make sense for petrol stations to install them. And if they dont they will probably get leaned on by the govt (bit like how they eliminated 2* petrol via massive tax hike to force unleaded adoption). When every petrol station has a couple of superfast chargers that can give you 100 miles in 5 mins then the whole game changes totally.

For right now though pure EV is not really an option as windsurf vehicle unless you live 20 miles from the beach and very rarely go further (although would be nice to buy a badly battered almost written off tesla model x on the cheap and rip most of the seats out and use that).
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