Compact or traditional waveboard?

Windsurf equipment based chatter should be in here.
DavidA
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Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by DavidA » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:01 am

Any advantage in this for the lighter rider? A friend who weighs in at 64kg and already has a fanatic triwave 70ish is looking for a bigger board( 80 ish)to cover the real world conditions of on shore waves on the south coast. Must be early to plane really smooth out the chop be able to jump well and turn tightly. Anybody got any experience of the current crop of waveboards as when you read the reviews they all claim to be able to do this!! If you are undecided on compact or traditional it really does open up the choices! Thanks for your help

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BillG
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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by BillG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:37 pm

I'm 56 kilos and my wave board of choice is my Moo Custom 66L x 54 x 220 pin tail thruster. It's short but not a 'compact' board and is fantastic for most conditions I sail in: south coast waves/chop, down the line Tiree/Cornwall and float and ride (a bit tippy and hard work). I also have a 75 JP thruster but the difference in float and ride is very small and I'm thinking about something floatier.

I've tried a Fanatic Stubby 77L which I didn't like. I found it draggy when underpowered and bouncy when powered up. It did turn nicely on the wave (Crossapol, Tiree), probably due to the back foot placement but not as well as the Moo.

It could just be me but I don't think they work as well for lighter people (mind you the owner who is a bit heavier than me really rips on it!)

PK1111
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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by PK1111 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:41 pm

Hi.
I’m 80 kg average south cost wannabe wave sailor and just changed mid size wave boards from traditional to a Severne Nano 93.
I was looking for a light wind, early planing, manouverable wave board.

First off, let’s dispel the myths. If there is any improvement in early planing and upwind ability, I’ve certainly not noticed it.
A fast flat rockertraditional board builds up speed more gradually, whereas the compact shapes tend to release at a certain power point, which I think gives an impression.

For general sailing, I’ve not noticed much difference, both styles dealing ok with chop and giving good lift into jumps and feeling compact and easy in the air.

Where the compact wave boards really come into their own is riding onshore waves. They really keep their speed up in the turns, making it feel like you can achieve much more. The best way to describe it is like sailing a skate board!

Not all compacts are the same and there are quite a few design differences, so I’d strongly recommend trying before you buy.

DavidA
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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by DavidA » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:41 pm

Thanks the Nano is on the list because its a very interesting modern design. If you were going up board size for real world on shore wave conditions like the UK is it better to go FSW or compact? Also on the list is the Mini Thruster because of rave reviews on here and elsewhere.

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crossy5575
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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by crossy5575 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:52 pm

I would second PK's comments - i have stubby boards - simmer 77, Fanatic 88 and Quatro 103 - I predominately sail in south coast conditions and they work really well there.
I would say they do go upwind a bit better than a number of boards, mainly as you sail them right over the fin thus can drive the board upwind a bit better.
Being shorter the turning radius is shorter, thus you generally stay upwind better. being so much smaller they are more twitchy - thus you can sail off downwind to get planning and then shoot upwind to regain ground - but you are definitely not going to gain litres by going for a compact board to get you going in a puff of wind!
one thing to note is that all the boards do not feel massively comfortable at top speed! being short and wide i have found them a bit bouncy on the chop and consequently out of control as i was blasting downwind at Hayling to change down!!!

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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by JB:) » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:11 pm

I cannot comment on main brand boards, but I have several 220ish boards and a 214 Wide Boy with a sh*t bucket load of rocker. All are 59cm wide with varying rockers from 10mm in the last metre to 25mm in the last 90cm. The shorter the board seems to change the range of the board. You sit more on the tail so can turn tighter off the back foot. But I have found the shorter you go the less composed in stronger winds. There seems to be less board to squeeze rocker into, so you can end up with less early planing (with plenty of rocker) to avoid pearling or a flatter fish rockerline. I have tried both and have a preference for a flatter fish style rockerline so I have lost composure for DTL sailing, but I only sail waves under head high these days, as I am a wuss.

You can, however; have a much higher volume bigger board and still turn, which is a benefit for Float and Ride or iffy gusty wind.

I'd personally say an FSW is not a wave board, not really. A jumping board that can turn a bit is my experience, mostly from borrowing RRDs from friends.

YMMV

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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by DavidA » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:15 am

Thanks JB sounds like there are many different ways of designing a compact board I wonder which of the manufacturers follow which route. Being able to use as float and ride would also be helpful. Crossy is obviously a big fan of the stubby and having 3 different manufacturers they must all have a slightly different approach? So some better than others at different points of sailing or conditions. We are trying to work out which ones work for the lighter sailor. Another one we are adding to the list is the JP Slate which some people seem to be fans of. Was thinking of trying to get hold of a translation of Surf magazine tests as they seem to do very analytical testing unlike Windsurf where they are all good!
I also think it might be good to list the definite No's i.e the ones that are dogs or don't work for lighter sailors on the south coast.

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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by JB:) » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:40 pm

As said I cannot really comment on main brand boards. However, I get inspiration from all sorts of places, including other board builders. I like to try snippets from all sort genres of boards in a mishmash of mess. Some of the time it works, others its bloody awful.

But, whenever I have seen the latest RRDs, Fanatic or JPs, they are reassuringly conservative. i.e. not really short or really wide or really rockered. This is not a criticism at all, more an acknowledgement that you are likely to get a nicely designed board, that will have a certain expected set of characteristics. That is probably why Windsurf struggle to critique them harshly - unless you are a complete cynique - the boards are all similarly good.

Something to consider though, if I were still a light weight (I am not, I'm 78kgs of food hoovering but I used to be 58kgs in my early twentys) I would most probably buy a freestyle board, and yes I would use that wave sailing (well in amongst the waves with the occasional hack at a breaking section) as I mostly just want to hop and pop around rather than turn. I have discovered over the last 3 years building myself a variety of 80ish litre wave boards, I really miss a freestyle board. I have found myself asking what do I actually prefer? Hunting around the break for that one good turn (which is fun) or zipping around and having enough speed to pop off anything around.

To give you an idea, the last time someone (foolishly) loaned me a more modern freestyle board the first thing I did was hunt for ramps and had my first go at spinloops in the better part of a decade and it reminded me why I have always enjoyed freestyle boards. They are compact, light, zippy, poppy and just plain fun even in small waves. You wont turn like Levi, but you will have speed around the break and that in itself is really helpful for wavesailing. Also you can use tiny sails on them and still get going in modest winds.

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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by Ruaraidh_K257 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:50 pm

DavidA wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:01 am
Any advantage in this for the lighter rider? A friend who weighs in at 64kg and already has a fanatic triwave 70ish is looking for a bigger board( 80 ish)to cover the real world conditions of on shore waves on the south coast. Must be early to plane really smooth out the chop be able to jump well and turn tightly. Anybody got any experience of the current crop of waveboards as when you read the reviews they all claim to be able to do this!! If you are undecided on compact or traditional it really does open up the choices! Thanks for your help
To be honest for a smaller rider, unless they’re riding it with volume super close to their body weight, a stubby isn’t the best board. They’re good for bigger people who want to get away with less volume but the wide tails generally feel a bit too big and bulky once you get planing. I’m 60kg and like to sail a bigger radical wave board rather than a smaller more onshore one, as you can get away with more float (much more comfortable when blogging out) but more curvy shapes will make them much more settled once you’re up to power. For instance my all round board, except for on the super windy days, is an 83 JP Ultimate Wave. It’s new for 2019, an amalgamation of their super hardcore Radical Thruster Quad (considered by just about everybody who I’ve spoken to who have used it as the best pure wave board ever!) and more onshore oriented Thruster Quad designs. It’s pretty fast but does sit more at the hardcore end of the spectrum, but it really is a magical board to sail. For starters, it gets planing much earlier than I thought (use it in Thruster setup with 10cm fronts, slightly bigger than what the really good guys use but it gives more lift and gets it going faster), but feels ridiculously settled when up to speed. I think they maybe overquoted the volume though; it has a narrow tail which does make a board feel smaller but I still think it’s smaller, maybe 78. Using the stock quad setup (I have some new K4s in the post, will test them and edit this!) it sticks to the water like nothing else... just yesterday I was using it fully overpowered on a 3.3 but not once did the board misbehave! I think the key for a small person’s big board is to get something with a lot of volume that’s very turny: the positive volume will help you get planing massively. Us lightweights have the luxury of sailing much bigger boards that big guys just can’t get away with. A bigger board gives you a lot of margin for error in gybes and tacks etc but if you go radical in the shape you can also get it to turn like a much smaller board, and therefore get the best of both worlds. I’m still going to buy a 69l Ultimate Wave for the nuking days, but only because it just feels a bit odd on the wave with a super small sail (I’ve just got a new 3.0 to back up the 3.3) so I want the board and sail combo to feel more in tune with each other if that makes sense!

But definitely go for a traditional shape. Super early planing wide tailed compact boards are great, but once you get more than about 10 litres of positive volume with them I think they lose their usefulness! I might be wrong but that’s my experience.
16, Scottish wavesailor, sponsored by - Neil Pryde, JP Australia, K4Fins, Wild Diamond Tiree

samlwind
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Re: Compact or traditional waveboard?

Post by samlwind » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:53 pm

I wouldn't worry about your weight. Look at outline shape and buy the right volume for your needs.

Most boards are shorter and compact, its the outline that makes the difference.

Pin tails can be harder to link sections and struggle with chop but will reward with grip on the wave.

Squashed tails are better for handling chop and slightly more all round.

I had a HAKA form witchcraft that was great for blasting and jumping. Early planning and easy to sail but lacked wave performance. That was pretty close to what a stubby is like I think.

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