Board design by Ola H.

Windsurf equipment based chatter should be in here.
Mitch K
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Mitch K » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:43 am

@ola - Great thread. As always, thanks for sharing your wisdom. You are a guru.
Sorry to hear about your busted rib. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

PS - Just found this new forum. So glad. Felt like an orphaned child after the Boards Forum went silent.
I see all the same suspects are posting away. Lots to catch up on. Many thanks to whoever is supporting this.

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Gorgesailor
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Gorgesailor » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:20 pm

Ola H. wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:47 am
Gorgesailor wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:25 pm
Very nice Ola! ... Can you post some rockerlines, thickness profiles & rail shape as well? Interested to see how these all mesh together on such a board - especially compared to more traditional shapes...
I will come back to some discussions on rockers and the notion of curvature later. Some other stuff first...
...Still really like to see comparison of Trad vs compact rockers....

Rasmus
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Rasmus » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm

Hello,

i do not understand why you try to make out of a non functional surfboard and fin setup (Twinfins) a functional sailboard, sorry makes no sense.

This surfboard in this video is a piece of shit, as all the shapes by Machado are too. Because someone was once a worldclass surfer does not mean he knows anything about shaping. The only exception is someone like Simon Anderson who made his own surfboards for competion, because that is the proving ground and he proved his boards as you also know, not a surfvideo with not riding the same waves with different material, that one can compare the performance of different shapes.

Why not try to make state of the art surfboards into a high performing sailboard?

Why not use an Cabianca or JS-Shape as a starting point, of course with functioning fin setups like thruster or quad?

You did understand that you have to stand back on the tail to make a sailboard turn tight, as you do in surfing, making wider tails, but you still use short nose designs and wide point forward outlines , like a 70´s surfboard when after an atempt by Kelly Slater in 2003- 05 no ONE uses this concept, because it is WRONG. If you have a board that should perform an off the lip or generally hits sections you want to have a nose that cuts threw uncoming water/whitewater and displaced it, and this a pointed nose.

When i read how you get designideas and from whom, i really get disapointed!!

Jamesblonde
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Jamesblonde » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:18 pm

Well if the surf board designs were poor, hats off to Ola for making a sail board from these that do work, must be a genius!

Richarli
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Richarli » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:47 pm

In a previous career I ran a wave ski with very forward and very wide set twin fins. It was super for hard bottom turns but very twitchy on the top spin turn.
I can't see a problem with taking ideas from other sports, certainly in the wave ski and surf kayak world we were stealing rocker lines from windsurfing all the time.
There's always a bit of gold somewhere if you're prepared to look outside your own field.

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Bouke/Witchcraft
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:52 pm

Rasmus wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm
Hello,

i do not understand why you try to make out of a non functional surfboard and fin setup (Twinfins) a functional sailboard, sorry makes no sense.

This surfboard in this video is a piece of shit, as all the shapes by Machado are too. Because someone was once a worldclass surfer does not mean he knows anything about shaping. The only exception is someone like Simon Anderson who made his own surfboards for competion, because that is the proving ground and he proved his boards as you also know, not a surfvideo with not riding the same waves with different material, that one can compare the performance of different shapes.

Why not try to make state of the art surfboards into a high performing sailboard?

Why not use an Cabianca or JS-Shape as a starting point, of course with functioning fin setups like thruster or quad?

You did understand that you have to stand back on the tail to make a sailboard turn tight, as you do in surfing, making wider tails, but you still use short nose designs and wide point forward outlines , like a 70´s surfboard when after an atempt by Kelly Slater in 2003- 05 no ONE uses this concept, because it is WRONG. If you have a board that should perform an off the lip or generally hits sections you want to have a nose that cuts threw uncoming water/whitewater and displaced it, and this a pointed nose.

When i read how you get designideas and from whom, i really get disapointed!!
Where there are many similarities between a windsurfing wave board for riding waves, (for example our thruster fin set up works very good under surfboards) there are also differences. If you would take a scaled up surfing shortboard and put straps and a mast box, it would not plane going out unless VERY powered up and would be very sketchy. Your feet would not be in an ergonomical position either. On a wave it would be OK on small clean waves but with a bit of chop would get to be quite sketchy as well. When wave riding one difference is that the sail power allows you to get around peaks or head for a section down wind to make an aerial so a wave that is sectioning is not as much of a problem and even offers more action. The sails also gives high G-forces in a turn so you need more grip. In 2012 I made a board for Andrew Fawcett which went somewhat into short board direction with a wider tail, narrower nose, wide point and straps further back, more rocker, it was brilliant in small clean waves but beyond that he ended up with above problems, not as much as when it would have been a full on short board shape but still.
Andrew68, 2101x543,LR.jpg
Andrew68, 2101x543,LR.jpg (62.86 KiB) Viewed 167 times
So the next board 3 years later was a more gunny version again.
Andrew Custom Wave V4 68, 2138x531, LR.jpg
Andrew Custom Wave V4 68, 2138x531, LR.jpg (67.39 KiB) Viewed 167 times
https://witchcraft.nu/. Boards, sails, masts, fins.

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Gorgesailor
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Gorgesailor » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:22 pm

Rasmus wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:29 pm
Hello,

i do not understand why you try to make out of a non functional surfboard and fin setup (Twinfins) a functional sailboard, sorry makes no sense.

This surfboard in this video is a piece of shit, as all the shapes by Machado are too. Because someone was once a worldclass surfer does not mean he knows anything about shaping. The only exception is someone like Simon Anderson who made his own surfboards for competion, because that is the proving ground and he proved his boards as you also know, not a surfvideo with not riding the same waves with different material, that one can compare the performance of different shapes.

Why not try to make state of the art surfboards into a high performing sailboard?

Why not use an Cabianca or JS-Shape as a starting point, of course with functioning fin setups like thruster or quad?

You did understand that you have to stand back on the tail to make a sailboard turn tight, as you do in surfing, making wider tails, but you still use short nose designs and wide point forward outlines , like a 70´s surfboard when after an atempt by Kelly Slater in 2003- 05 no ONE uses this concept, because it is WRONG. If you have a board that should perform an off the lip or generally hits sections you want to have a nose that cuts threw uncoming water/whitewater and displaced it, and this a pointed nose.

When i read how you get designideas and from whom, i really get disapointed!!
Seriously?! :lol: Wide point back has been done many times. Windsurfing is different. Really even in surfing wide points are further forward than they were 10 years ago. In fact the few wide point back shapes in the surf quiver are dedicated "Comp" shortboards a small nich of the main surf market. Fishes, Tomos, mini Simmons etc are way more popular styles & Ola is wise to look at them for inspiration. Just look at what some top Windsurf shapers who also shape competive Surfboards are doing. Look at Keith Teboul or Sebastien Wenzel shapes. Ola & Bouke are not idiots... but your criticism...

JB:)
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by JB:) » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:57 pm

Bouke,

All your wide points look to be at or near the centre of your mast tracks. When you didn't use CAD software how would you choose the wide point position of a board? Do you have a go to formula? or is it based in relation to mast track position?

I have tried boards with the wide point at the front of the track and at the back of the track and TBH I preferred the boards with the wide point back. I tend to work out wide points in relation to the length of board as a % e.g. 5% forward of mid point. So for a for a 230cm board that is 126.5cm or 11.5 cm forward of centre, which is about the middle of the track (+/-). I have gone as far as 130cm wide point for a 230 board.

JB

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Bouke/Witchcraft
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:51 am

JB:) wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:57 pm
Bouke,

All your wide points look to be at or near the centre of your mast tracks. When you didn't use CAD software how would you choose the wide point position of a board? Do you have a go to formula? or is it based in relation to mast track position?
Yes, the mast track position is an important indicator, I may deviate a little from that by intuition. But only by 1-2cm at the most. Mostly if the mast track is further forward such as on the Wave V5, it is to have more drive of the rail and thus have a longer railline so the wide point is also more forward and on boards with the mast track more back such as the Reaper which is aimed to be snappy on small waves, also the wide point is more back. Before using CAD, I would mark the max width where the mast box goes and tail and nose width and then use templates to draw a smooth curve through these points. If I did not like the curve I would change the tail and/or nose width or the template. To judge the outline, you stand the board against the wall and look at it from a distance and also look at the flow when looking over the lines from the tail and nose. Over time this all gets more and more refined with more templates and from experience you pretty quickly chose the right template.
I don´t promote making surfboards but if I get an interesting order, I may do it. Here is a 5´9" full sandwich-Dyneema surfboard we made with Witchcraft pretwist fins for a guy wanting to spend half a year in Indo. It weighed 2.3kg. The last board we made him was over 15 years ago.
rote-17-22_orig.jpg
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rote-17-7_orig.jpg
rote-17-7_orig.jpg (136.68 KiB) Viewed 75 times
https://witchcraft.nu/. Boards, sails, masts, fins.

PK1111
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Re: Board design by Ola H.

Post by PK1111 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:22 pm

Interesting read and great to see the cross sport fertilisation.
A key question for me is to what degree a design should specialise, rather than have generic traits.
The danger is that boards become too specialised and don’t work well outside their comfort zone? It can lead to expensive mistakes, especially when the marketers have added their descriptions.

I’m lucky in having a very supportive family, so get to travel around the uk a lot and experience lots of different conditions, especially with waves.
I now have 3 wave boards that are all quite specific, but I wonder if just one would do?

I’d be hard pressed to choose one, but my 84 litre quad would Probabally win.
So how “all round” are these designs?

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