4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Foiling related talk in here
McDee
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by McDee » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:45 am

9FA013DB-685C-42C0-8595-B601E12E9080.jpeg
I have a JP Surf Slate Sup 8’ x 30” ,129 Lt.It has had US tracks added for SUP foiling by a previous owner and I have a Cloud IX surf foil with a 1720 cm2,32” wide front wing & 14” tail wing with a 74 cm fuselage.I am average weight about 78kg.

I have shimmed the bottom plate to get the foil perpendicular to the board as it was facing down, and have a 6mm shim than can be added.to the rear wing to assist lift if needed, this came with the foil, and was probably intended more for surf foiling.

I have found the foil works best in the middle of the track,72cm from the windsurf mast foot insert to the middle of the foil mast.

I want to start learning to Wind Foil,as my background in water sports experience was windsurfing ,and I thought this would make for easier progress.I am looking at moving to Wing Foiling at a later stage, hence the reason I bought the large surf foil.

The board has a windsurf mast foot screw insert only and no track for adjustment but seems well balanced.

I am going to take separate Wind Foiling lessons to gain experience with correctly set up gear.

My initial runs have shown the board takes a lot of effort to get onto a plane as Ronnie has pointed out in this post, due to the rocker,not being ideal for Windsurf or Wind Foil use.

I have managed to get it onto the foil in 14knots with a 5.7,but it was acting like a bucking bull, and chucked me off pretty quickly,which could be just my inexperience,but I did have the tail shim in.I am riding it strapless.

Comments on my set up, what adjustments I should be making,and if this should work ok for a foiling beginner would be appreciated.

I was thinking of trying the 2 outer back FCS fins left in and using larger sails up to 7.5 to help get the board planing,just have to wait on some wind first.

ronnie
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:33 am

Hi McDee,
IMGP0372.JPG
On page 5 I explained that my GoFoil was placed with the centre of the mast at 84cm back from the sail mast insert. So that is 12cm further back than yours. I found that was a good balance point for me, but the size of your board would mean the centre of gravity might be in a different place. I weigh 75kg. 12cm does seem a lot though, even for a different foil and board, because they are both surf foils. Having the foil mast further back should reduce the tendency to yaw and make the foil more directional. Using the centre fin could also make it more directional, which would help when learning.

I found the GoFoil very 'squirrelly' in that it does react quickly to inputs, so having settings that stabilise things helps when learning. There is no adjustment on the GoFoil. The Cloud foil looks a bit flatter than the IWA and is probably wider, which should stabilise the roll a bit.
Being a big foil helps in that it lifts at low speed and thus things are slowed down. The biggest sail I used was 6.3m, but if you can get away with less, all the better. I don't know how reactive your foil is.
If the rear wedge increases the downforce of the rear wing, that should increase the pitch stability, which would help when learning. It would increase drag a bit though.

I also showed how I figured out what size of wedge was needed between the plate and the board and mine came out at 9mm. I chose the flattest rockered part of the board (which I thought contributed the most to speed) and set the foil mast at 90 degrees to that and that seemed to work. I bought and used a 10mm and it seemed to work well.

My board took off at low speed and felt quite level when flying, with the nose slightly up, which suggested to me that the wedge between the plate and the board was about right. If you are flying in 14 knots of wind with a 5.7m that is pretty good for that rockered board. The board feels much more lively and 'light' with a foil attached.

If you can get flat water, that helps a lot (especially if you have a short mast - mine was 73cm). Getting it to a lifting speed and keeping it just above the water is all you need to do at the start. Err on the side of splashing down - it's much more efficient than having to get back onto the board after a crash. It won't be an ideal beginners foil, because of its quick reactions and the surf mast position, but slowing things down gives you time to react.

motogon
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by motogon » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:25 pm

Smidge wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:08 pm
I noticed that RRD now make a 2in1 (Windfoil and sup foil) called the Hi Flight. Its big (150l)and flat rockered at rear, as they say its hard to learn sup foiling and you need all the help you can get. My experience last week of trying to basic SUP surf was that balancing on a sup and paddling up to wave catching speed in fast waves was surprisingly hard (I gave up and just surfed on the SUP instead). Im guessing the RRD will be better for windfoiling than the Starboard 4in1, but you lose out on SUPing and windsurfing it.
Hi! Did you have chance to windfoil on that RRD Hi-Flight? Can you share experience?

Smidge
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by Smidge » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:33 pm

No, sorry.

motogon
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by motogon » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:47 pm

Sucks! I really like idea of that board, but so far didn't find anyone who sailed that board and can comment on sailing abilities of it.

ronnie
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:23 am

Updating the 2020 choices for 4in1 Sup, Windsup, Windfoil, Supfoil boards.

Starboard still offer the 4in1 in 2 sizes, but now only in the Starlite construction.
https://sup.star-board.com/products/hyp ... il-4-in-1/


JP have the Sup Slate in 3 sizes and a choice of constructions.
https://jp-australia.com/p/sup/composit ... slate-sup/


Naish list their Hover Crossover as a 3in1 without the windsup category, and that may be because they don't rate it for windsup highly enough to think it justifies adding it.
https://www.naishfoils.com/product/hover-crossover/


F-One Papenoo Convertible.
https://www.f-one.world/product/papenoo-convertible-2/



AHD Sealiona wing foil.
https://www.windsurf.co.uk/test/sealion ... 19-review/
Last edited by ronnie on Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ronnie
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:28 pm

Update on 3in1 foil boards for 2020. Boards that foil with a sail, wing and paddle.

Fanatic SKY SUP FOIL WS
https://www.fanatic.com/sup/composite-b ... up-foil-ws



JP 2020 SUP Foil.
https://jp-australia.com/p/sup/composite-boards/foil/



Naish Hover Crossover 2020
https://www.naishfoils.com/product/hover-crossover/



RRD Pocket Rocket 180
https://equipment.robertoriccidesigns.c ... ocket-y25/




Takuma Concept Hybrid
https://www.takuma-concept.com/119-hybrid-76.html




Zeeko Airwave
I'm not sure if the windfoil model is still in production because they list it out of stock?
http://zeeko-kites.com/fr/windfoil-seri ... 12315.html


Sroka windfoil
https://srokacompany.com/en/categorie-p ... f-foil-en/

McDee
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by McDee » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:31 pm

Thanks Ronnie for the great feedback.i have tried leaving all 3 fins in ,and this seems to offset the rocker issue ,and gets the board planing earlier.It was planing as well as the Naish Hover I requested for my first Wind
3D50CDE4-DAE8-4F0F-89A3-3A6FB750DA3F.jpeg
Foil lesson.

My main learning difficulty at the moment is I think I need to head upwind more quickly like Baz does in the video to stop being immediately over powered by the sail once board has been released from surface tension ,and foil kicks into flight mode.Should both my feet be out on the rail edge or more centred on the board at this stage.

Do you think front foot straps and a harness would help ,as are not using either at the moment, as I was advised not to at the start.

What type of sail type do you recommend ,sail settings,and boom height.

Thanks again

ronnie
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Re: 4in1 sup/windfoil/surfoil/windsurf

Post by ronnie » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:54 am

McDee wrote:
Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:31 pm
Thanks Ronnie for the great feedback.i have tried leaving all 3 fins in ,and this seems to offset the rocker issue ,and gets the board planing earlier.It was planing as well as the Naish Hover I requested for my first Wind3D50CDE4-DAE8-4F0F-89A3-3A6FB750DA3F.jpeg Foil lesson.

My main learning difficulty at the moment is I think I need to head upwind more quickly like Baz does in the video to stop being immediately over powered by the sail once board has been released from surface tension ,and foil kicks into flight mode.Should both my feet be out on the rail edge or more centred on the board at this stage.

Do you think front foot straps and a harness would help ,as are not using either at the moment, as I was advised not to at the start.

What type of sail type do you recommend ,sail settings,and boom height.

Thanks again
I have back problems, which I'm finding are problematic and losing me time on the water, so I try to minimise uphauling. I try to use the smallest sail I can waterstart with as my guide to sail size, but if you have no problem uphauling, then you can get away with a slightly smaller sail. I also keep the boom low and use 24" harness lines for foiling. I'm using adjustable lines. I've tried setting for power to reduce the sail size, but find that the winds are too variable and it is better setting for stable CofE, windrange and power low down. I'd say its best to not use the harness until you feel like you are starting to feel in control.
I did once use a 6.3m, but I found 4.5m to 5.4m is a preferred sail size to foil, and my biggest sail is 5.9 now.
SailRepair is the expert on sails, so his advice is useful to read.

With this type of board, the stance is more centered and upright, so your back foot should be near the centre of the board and usually my front foot would have been a few inches behind the mast and pointing toward it. These are Surf foils, with the foil 'mast' a lot closer to the front wing than with a wingfoil, so it is best to keep that in mind. I found it quite natural and nice not to have footstraps, as you can naturally sense where your feet need to go, and it is easier to climb onto the board.
This is Casey Treichler on his own custom board, but he is using a GoFoil Maliko 200 Surf foil, so this foil is maybe similar to your foil. His stance is in relation to the mast and foil placed in the correct places, but he is a very experienced foiler, so sometimes has his feet close together.


If you are overpowered a lot, then you may have to turn upwind to get things under control, but it means you have too big a sail. You want to be powered so that you have just enough to get foiling, but not too much that you can't sheet out comfortably and sail back to where you started. Because the Slate has so much rocker, I found the sail that would just waterstart me was just powerful enough to get it foiling with the IWA foil, and then when it was flying, I usually had to sheet out a bit to control the power. With the IWA foil, it reacted so fast that I was always trying to keep the speed down.

This is a video with a JP Slate 7' 6" 115 litre and I think a Kai foil (Though it may be an IWA with a Kai tail wing), but I think he has mounted the foil too far forward on the board and is overpowered by the sail size, so that is why he is standing so far forward.


This is another video with a Gofoil (Maliko 160 this time). These guys are veeery good. Their stance would be changed by towing or preparing to sit down, so not much of a guide, but it shows what's possible with a Surf foil.

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