‘Drive’

Chat about stuff that doesn't fall into the other categories here.
wully
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‘Drive’

Post by wully » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:54 pm

Describe what ‘Drive’ is for me please?

The term gets chucked around a lot and I’d be interested to learn what others perception of this is....

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Charlie W
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Charlie W » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:00 pm

First track and lead single from the classic R.E.M. album Automatic For The People

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Bouke/Witchcraft
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:21 pm

wully wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:54 pm
Describe what ‘Drive’ is for me please?

The term gets chucked around a lot and I’d be interested to learn what others perception of this is....
Maybe this helps? https://witchcraft.nu/windsurfing-scien ... -is-drive/
https://witchcraft.nu/. Boards, sails, masts, fins.

ronnie
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by ronnie » Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:44 pm

I think it can be used in a number of meanings for windsurfing. Drive from a sail, drive from a board, drive from a fin, or other ways.

Last time I used the word drive was:
Update 2nd June. Tried the 105 with the weed fin and a 5.9m IQ. Positioned the sail at the middle of the track. For slogging, I found it best to keep my front foot no further forward than just in front of the front strap. I tried going to the front strap first, but weight was too far back. I found it best to get it trying to plane, then put the back foot in and lean forward to drive the nose off the wind to get it planing before putting the front foot in. Kept it off the wind a bit until it was planing fully and then it started to feel like a windsurf board. It felt quite fast and comfortable over the water. Even with the weed fin, it still feels like it wants to go upwind. I'm feeling more optimistic that it is windsurfable.

Talking about a JP Foil board 204cm by 70 cm and trying to persuade it to windsurf. It seems to want to go upwind, so I was trying to find a way to make it go off the wind until I could get it planing on the back 30% of the board, when it starts to feel like a windsurf board. The front 70% has chamfered rails.

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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Ruaraidh_K257 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 pm

Put simply it’s something that provides a forward force. You get really drivey sails that give you a lot of power through your turns, you get a board which when combined with front foot pressure and speed will give you tons of drive through a turn etc. That’s my understanding of the term
16, Scottish wavesailor, sponsored by - Neil Pryde, JP Australia, K4Fins, Wild Diamond Tiree

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Bouke/Witchcraft
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:29 am

Ruaraidh_K257 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 pm
Put simply it’s something that provides a forward force.
That is correct. But originally the term "drive" comes from surfing where you do not have a sail.
Ruaraidh_K257 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 pm
you get a board which when combined with front foot pressure and speed will give you tons of drive through a turn etc.
A board can´t really give drive unless it is a flex tail. There are differences though how much drag a board creates. Also front foot pressure can increase drag. On a flat rockered board too much front foot pressure will cause to catch the rail and you will stall. Normally a higher rockered board will drag less in a turn.
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by wully » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Bouke/Witchcraft wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:29 am
Ruaraidh_K257 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 pm
Put simply it’s something that provides a forward force.
That is correct. But originally the term "drive" comes from surfing where you do not have a sail.
Ruaraidh_K257 wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:56 pm
you get a board which when combined with front foot pressure and speed will give you tons of drive through a turn etc.
A board can´t really give drive unless it is a flex tail. There are differences though how much drag a board creates. Also front foot pressure can increase drag. On a flat rockered board too much front foot pressure will cause to catch the rail and you will stall. Normally a higher rockered board will drag less in a turn.
So if we have power from a sail or a wave or both coupled with good technique then we can ‘drive’ a board with this quality Through a turn with minimal loss of speed?

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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Bouke/Witchcraft » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:37 pm

wully wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:43 pm
So if we have power from a sail or a wave or both coupled with good technique then we can ‘drive’ a board with this quality Through a turn with minimal loss of speed?
Well it is actually possible to accelerate in a turn through a well designed fin set up, making use of the fact that the outer fin leaves the water, as explained in the article. Sometimes I have customers who say it feels like the board accelerates in a turn. But you need good clean light wind conditions to feel the board well.
Apart from the fins, a flextail which flexes under pressure will get a forward component from that pressure plus a tighter turn. That is why surfers want boards that flex.
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by Ruaraidh_K257 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:45 pm

Interesting!


I was meaning hardcore boards that do seem to respond well to front foot pressure. But I know absolutely nothing about flex beyond what you just told me so I can’t comment on that side of things.

@wully

Your KS3s will give you a lot of drive off the bottom turn I think and then go neutral on the top. So in theory they should generate lots of power when you get to the bottom of the wave and start to carve uphill, then lose it at the top of the wave when you have plenty of speed. Likewise my Combats provide continuous drive rather than on off, making them more useful for waves that don’t have much power etc

I think!
16, Scottish wavesailor, sponsored by - Neil Pryde, JP Australia, K4Fins, Wild Diamond Tiree

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BTB
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Re: ‘Drive’

Post by BTB » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:21 pm

Bouke/Witchcraft wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:37 pm
wully wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:43 pm
So if we have power from a sail or a wave or both coupled with good technique then we can ‘drive’ a board with this quality Through a turn with minimal loss of speed?
Well it is actually possible to accelerate in a turn through a well designed fin set up, making use of the fact that the outer fin leaves the water, as explained in the article. Sometimes I have customers who say it feels like the board accelerates in a turn. But you need good clean light wind conditions to feel the board well.
Apart from the fins, a flextail which flexes under pressure will get a forward component from that pressure plus a tighter turn. That is why surfers want boards that flex.
As a former skater i agree with this, on a skateboard you can build speed by pumping through turns, same applies in surfing and windsurfing. You need resistance to push of and that is why fins and drive can be disscussed together. In Windsurfing there are so many other forces at play so it is hard to identify any momentum you build through turning - if any - but if you have ever skated you know it must be there in the mix.

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